MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
The United Nations heads of state will be heading to New York next week for what's called High-Level Week, where they converge on U.N. headquarters. In advance of that, the U.S. has announced it is supporting plans to expand the number of permanent members on the U.N. Security Council. This matters because the Security Council is the most powerful body at the U.N. It has the power to impose sanctions or arms embargoes and to authorize the use of force. This proposal includes two permanent seats for African nations and one seat to be rotated among small island developing states. The addition of these seats would put two African nations at the table with Russia, China, France, the U.S. and Britain, currently the only five nations with permanent seats among the 193 member nations. Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield represents the U.S. at the United Nations, and she's here now to say more about this proposal. Good morning.
LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD: Good morning, Michel.
MARTIN: Let me just mention that the U.S. has supported for a long time the addition of India, Japan and Germany as permanent members. But I want to focus on Africa - why the support, the African-led push, to have two permanent African nations on the council.
THOMAS-GREENFIELD: Look, the Security Council, as it exists today, does not represent the reality of today. When the council was set up 70 years ago, there were only two countries on the continent of Africa who - that were independent. Fast forward to today - we have 53 African countries in the United Nations. And we believe, in order for the council to be inclusive and credible and legitimate and effective, that there should be Security Council reform, and that should include permanent seats for Africa, which African countries have been calling for for some time.
MARTIN: As you mentioned, they have been pushing for this for some time. What makes this the right moment for the U.S. to support that position?
THOMAS-GREENFIELD: You know, we have been discussing this for a number of years, and you may recall the president announced this in his speech to the General Assembly two years ago. And over the course of the past two years, I have engaged in a very extensive listening tour, meeting with over 80 countries to get their ideas, to hear from them, to see how we could move this agenda forward. And so this announcement yesterday is a result of those consultations that we have had with all of these countries, both here in Washington - I mean, both in Washington, here in New York, as well as in their capitals.
MARTIN: What difference do you think this would make? For example, you have made no secret of the fact that you have been very frustrated by the fact that there has not been the level of attention you feel it deserves of the ongoing humanitarian and diplomatic crisis in Sudan, where, you know, our colleague Emmanuel Akinwotu has, you know, finally made it into the country, and he describes just an apocalyptic scene there. And millions of people have been displaced both internally and externally. Do you think, if there had been permanent representation on the Security Council now, that this crisis would have gotten more attention?
THOMAS-GREENFIELD: I think so. I absolutely think so. I have been very, very clear that we need African leadership on these issues. And with three rotating seats, it doesn't give them the kinds of - the kind of time they need to engage on actually moving forward agendas in the council. So yes, I do think it would have helped us on the situation in Sudan - a situation that, as you know, I feel very strongly needs to have more attention, both in the press, but also in the Security Council.
MARTIN: So this would be of benefit to African nations, but do you see an impact on global security more broadly?
THOMAS-GREENFIELD: Yes, 'cause African presence on the Security Council is not just about Africa. It's about African voices being heard on a whole series of issues. The council deals with the world, and so it would bring African leadership into the fray on issues of import to the entire world.
MARTIN: So, you know, the security council is often criticized for being dysfunctional, particularly being gridlocked over veto powers. Members of the African Union, which would select the African representatives, support the abolition of the veto, but absent that, they think it should be extended to everybody. What do you have to say about that, as briefly as you can?
THOMAS-GREENFIELD: You know, we've been clear on that position, as well. We do not support the extension of the veto. I know that that's one of the requests made by the Africans. The Africans and many others have argued that the veto power is dysfunctional. And while we don't agree with that, if they believe that, expanding the veto power does not help that make the Security Council function any better. But people tend to focus, Michel, on the veto power, but we passed 180 resolutions over the course of the past four years. Most of them passed by consensus, so the council functions. There are some areas we don't function on, but the council, broadly, does function.
MARTIN: OK. That is Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield. She is the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. Ambassador, thank you so much for coming on this morning to explain all this to us.
THOMAS-GREENFIELD: Thank you for having me, Michel. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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