ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
The Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny wrote, if they do finally whack me, the book will be my memorial. The book is a new memoir called "Patriot." Navalny died in a Siberian prison this past February. His wife Yulia Navalnaya now leads the movement her husband started fighting Russian President Vladimir Putin's grip on power. And she's with us to talk about her late husband's book. Yulia Navalnaya, welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
YULIA NAVALNAYA: Hello, Ari. Thank you for having me.
SHAPIRO: We are happy to have you here. This memoir begins with a scene of Alexei on a plane, realizing that he has been poisoned with a nerve agent. And he had a long recovery in Germany. You were by his side, and then he made what might have been the most pivotal decision of his life. He returned to Russia, where he was arrested at the border and imprisoned until his death. How do you think about that decision he made to return to his country?
NAVALNAYA: I understand that from other side, it looks like strange decision, but I knew my husband for many years. I lived with him for many years, and I knew him very well. I knew that he would never do another decision. He wanted to be in Russia. He wanted to be with Russian people and his Russian supporters. It was very important for him to come back and show that he doesn't fright, that he wants to continue his fight despite they poisoned him or not.
SHAPIRO: I think many people will be surprised at how much his sense of humor comes through in this book, even in his very darkest moments. What do you think was the secret to his positivity?
NAVALNAYA: I think that it was a kind of his superpower. And if I would know the secret - unfortunately, nobody knows. That's why he was so popular. That's why people love him. That's why he had so many supporters. From one side, he was leader of Russian opposition. He was serious politician. And you, of course, expect from serious politician that - like, you know, the man in suit with tie and so on.
SHAPIRO: Right.
NAVALNAYA: Of course. He wore sometimes a suit and hat and tie. But still, he was - and he wanted to be - the ordinary guy from the next-door house. And he was really funny. And it's not about the book. It's about, like, our life.
SHAPIRO: Yeah.
NAVALNAYA: I spent him - with him more than 25 years. And all the time, he was very funny, and he was very easy. And he laughed a lot during very difficult moments in our life. And it helped a lot, and it gave a lot of strength.
SHAPIRO: He talks about watching "Rick And Morty," the animated show, on airplane flights while he's campaigning in this intense pressure cooker. Even as he was being poisoned with the nerve agent, he was in the middle of an episode.
NAVALNAYA: He was (laughter). And he loved "Rick And Morty" a lot. And as you remember, he writes in his book that it was a special episode which he liked a lot about small cucumber, or something like this.
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
NAVALNAYA: I'm a little bit - I'm sorry about it because I really, to say the truth, never watched - probably a couple times with him - "Rick And Morty." So I'm not just - you know, I don't know a lot of details.
SHAPIRO: The first half of the book is a traditional memoir, and the second half is a prison diary. As you read those pages that he wrote while he was in prison, what surprised you?
NAVALNAYA: First of all, I knew about conditions in - torturing conditions in which he was in prison, of course, during he was alive because still it was very difficult, but we were able to exchange letters. That's why I knew much more. Nothing surprised me because in these diaries, you can know, really, my husband, Alexei Navalny. It saw him, and from one side, we can read about awful things which happened with him in prison, like hunger strike and all these torturing things. But from the other side, even during these days, he was very strong but not just seriously strong. He laughed at his prison guards. He laughed at the situation. He laughed at himself. And it was his special thing about him, and it was his special power. And I think that it helped him a lot in his life.
SHAPIRO: He describes a moment during your first extended visit to him in prison where he says to you, I don't want to sound dramatic, but I think there's a high probability I'll never get out of here. Even if everything starts falling apart, he says, they will bump me off at the first sign the regime is collapsing. What do you remember about that conversation?
NAVALNAYA: I remember a very long corridor, and we were walking one side and back along this corridor. And I remember this conversation, and I wanted to be supportive at this moment. I wanted - as I told, we lived so many years together, so I knew him very well. And I didn't want, you know, to be sad or to show him how scared I am with this situation. And that's why I wanted to be supportive. And also, I knew that in couple days, I will be a free person, and he will stay in prison. That's why despite he was very good - a strong shoulder for me all of life, but still it was very important at that moment that I need to be his shoulder.
SHAPIRO: There was nearly an agreement to free your husband in a prisoner swap. Do you allow yourself to think about how your life would be different today if that had gone through before he died?
NAVALNAYA: I like the way you asked me this question. That's very good words because I'm probably a little bit afraid to give these feelings come to me, and it could be very difficult to come back from all the thoughts. That's why I really never allowed myself. But still, I want to say that I'm very happy that this prisoner swap happened and that innocent people who were fighting against Vladimir Putin's regime are freed.
SHAPIRO: That's Yulia Navalnaya. She has now taken over as leader of her late husband, Alexei Navalny's, movement. And tomorrow we'll talk with her about Vladimir Putin and the future of the opposition in Russia.
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