AILSA CHANG, HOST:
OK, as we heard, President-elect Donald Trump has announced that he will nominate Pete Hegseth, a Fox News host and Army veteran, to be his next secretary of defense. Now, the choice of Hegseth, who's 44, stunned many people on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon and in the retired ranks. They expected a pick to be one of several lawmakers. Let's hear more from NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman now. Hi, Tom.
TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK, you have covered the Pentagon for a quarter century. Am I right? Can you explain why this choice of Hegseth is such a surprise?
BOWMAN: Well, first of all, his background as a TV commentator. Most defense secretaries have more substantial records in politics, the military or industry. Now, Hegseth did serve in the National Guard - deployed to Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, Afghanistan - but a very thin resume. I went over the biographies also of defense secretaries and secretaries of war going back to the beginning of the republic, and I can say without a doubt he has the least experience - and not well-known. One Capitol Hill aide I spoke with said I had to Google his name. A retired general reacted with a word I cannot use on the air.
CHANG: OK, so why do you think Trump picked Hegseth for this job?
BOWMAN: Well, it seems loyalty. Hegseth is a staunch supporter of Donald Trump, who said in a statement that, quote, "Pete is tough, smart and a true believer in America first. Our military will be great again and America will never back down." Now, Trump says our military will be great again. That means he sees a problem now. Hegseth and other conservatives have long complained the military cares more about diversity and equity than meritocracy and preparing for war. Now, Hegseth did say recently that integrating the military back in 1948 was a huge success because Black and Hispanic men can perform like white guys. But he went on to say that the military has turned into some kind of a woke social experiment, and it's hurt the military. Here he is recently on the "Shawn Ryan Show."
(SOUNDBITE OF PODCAST, "SHAWN RYAN SHOW")
PETE HEGSETH: You saw the trans stuff come at the end of the Obama administration. You saw the women in combat come at the end of the Obama administration. It's because they looked around at the bureaucracies that they controlled in Washington and the one that they didn't control. Obama spent a disproportionate amount of time focusing on the Pentagon.
CHANG: Well, to be fair, this has long been a criticism in conservative circles, right?
BOWMAN: That is right. It's been that way for years. And it's important to note that there has been resistance within the military. The Marine Corps was against gays and lesbians serving openly and also was opposed to women serving in ground combat. But they accepted it, and both groups are present in very small numbers. Just over 4% of Marines identify as gay or bisexual. And small numbers of women, maybe a handful each year, make it through the tough Marine infantry officer course. And Army Green Berets, again, just a handful are women. So there's really no widespread sense that these changes have disrupted the military, and of course, the ground wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are over. But there are always complaints, especially among the old guard.
CHANG: All right, well, do we have any sense of how Pete Hegseth would make changes at the Pentagon?
BOWMAN: Well, the sense is he will, of course, end any diversity programs and maybe retire or replace senior officers he sees as woke or who did not get the promotion through what he sees as merit alone. He has said before that the current Joint Chiefs Chairman General CQ Brown has pursued radical positions from left-wing politicians. So you could see him replaced, as well as other senior officers. But as far as running the Pentagon, he'll need a strong deputy and an experienced staff because he's never run a big organization. And I think the center of gravity will be at the White House, like it is now, with incoming National Security Adviser Mike Waltz playing a central role. Ailsa, he has a lot of experience as a congressman, Green Beret and former Pentagon official.
CHANG: That is NPR's Tom Bowman. Thank you so much, Tom.
BOWMAN: You're welcome.
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