SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
President Biden talked on the phone today with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The topic was, of course, conflict in the Middle East, which will likely remain a front-and-center concern for the next U.S. president. So we wanted to compare how the two candidates might approach this issue as well as other foreign policy matters. I'm joined now by two NPR White House correspondents who have been covering the campaign, Franco Ordoñez - hey, Franco...
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Hey, Scott.
DETROW: ...And Asma Khalid. Hey, Asma.
ASMA KHALID, BYLINE: Hey there, Scott.
DETROW: Asma, let's start with you. You've been covering Vice President Harris. What is her position on the conflict in the Middle East? How would she handle it differently than Biden has?
KHALID: Well, she has not really articulated any major way in which she would handle the conflict differently than President Biden. She has repeatedly said that Israel has a right to defend itself and that she will ensure it has the ability to do so. She does not support an arms embargo on Israel, as some folks within the Democratic left flank of the party have suggested. She joined that call that you mentioned that President Biden held with Netanyahu earlier today, as she often does - join calls that he has. And, you know, like Biden, she keeps calling for a cease-fire hostage deal to end the war.
One difference I'll note is that, you know, she was amongst the first voices in the administration to emphasize the suffering of Palestinians. That being said, though, she has offered little indication of how that rhetorical empathy could translate into policy, and she has not offered a lot of clarity about how she sees the violence in Lebanon factoring into all of this.
DETROW: Yeah. Yeah. Franco, you've been covering former President Donald Trump. How would you describe his relationship with Netanyahu, and what is Trump's approach to this?
ORDOÑEZ: I mean, Scott, the relationship really runs a bit hot and cold. I mean, Trump was really angry with Netanyahu for congratulating Biden, actually, four years ago, when Biden won the election. And Trump criticized Netanyahu, as well, for not being prepared for the October 7 Hamas attack. But now, Trump is embracing Netanyahu. And just this week, Trump promised, if reelected, that the relationship with Israel would be stronger than ever. Though he's not offered very many specifics on how he'd approach Gaza - very little - he's made very negative comments about Palestinians as well, and he just talks a lot about bringing back strength and respect to the White House.
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DONALD TRUMP: I say that November 5 will be the most important day in the history of our country. I think it will also be the most important day in the history of Israel, if you want to know the truth. I believe that. I think you believe that, too.
ORDOÑEZ: And I'll just add that his allies do point to the work that he did on the Abraham Accords. You know, that's the historic agreement that normalized economic relations between Israel and four Arab countries. And they say those ties could be deepened.
DETROW: Well, let's shift from this war to the other big war, and that's the - Russia's war in Ukraine, of course. Asma, what is Vice President Harris saying about her policy there?
KHALID: Well, again, there, she is in lockstep with President Biden. She sees support for Ukraine against Russia as part of a bigger vision to defend international order. She's met with Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, frequently, including just last month, when she had this to say.
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VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: The United States supports Ukraine, not out of charity, but because it is in our strategic interest.
KHALID: Harris has also spoken about finding a just and lasting peace, and she's indicated that she would not meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin bilaterally without Ukraine there at the table as well.
DETROW: Speaking of Putin, though, Franco - some really interesting and eye-popping details about Trump and Putin in a new book by journalist Bob Woodward. What are we learning this week?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, very eye-popping - I mean, what jumped out to me is his reporting that, since leaving office, Trump has spoken with Putin as many as seven times. You know, it's just another example of how differently Trump interacts with the world. You know, he shuns traditional allies and boasts about his ties with authoritarian leaders, whether it's Putin or Viktor Orban of Hungary. I mean, he's also encouraged Republicans to block funding to Ukraine.
And I'll add that Trump also met with Zelenskyy of Ukraine just a few weeks ago and pledged to work on a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia. But some of his top national security advisers have drafted a plan that would pressure Ukraine into entering peace talks if they want to continue to get military aid from the U.S. And under that same plan to entice Putin, Trump would essentially offer to put off NATO membership for Ukraine in exchange for a peace deal. I can tell you it is not a plan that Ukraine is likely to embrace.
DETROW: Yeah, it doesn't sound like it. What about, more broadly, NATO, though? Would Trump actually pull the United States out of the alliance, which is such a big concern for so many?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, I mean, Trump has threatened to leave NATO so many times that so many of his critics think it's a matter of if, but when. The reality, though, is it would be hard to leave NATO officially. But even if Trump doesn't formally leave the organization, the larger concern is that Trump undercuts the importance of the alliance so much that it's no longer relevant because it's so based on trust. Now, NATO is one of the biggest contrasts between Trump and Harris on foreign policy, and Harris has really put it at the center of her campaign. And it's really a big part of appeal - her push across the aisle to attract more traditional, moderate Republicans.
DETROW: And Asma, in the time we have left, let's turn to another small foreign policy topic, you know? And that is, of course, China - a major player in all of this.
KHALID: Yeah.
DETROW: What are the candidates saying about China?
KHALID: Yeah. I mean, this is the relationship that both Republicans and Democrats have really tried to center in recent years, and both Harris and Trump have talked about competition with China out on the campaign trail. You know, Trump says that he'll expand his signature tariffs on China. Those are tariffs that the Biden administration has largely kept in place. I was speaking with a former national security adviser to Harris recently, and that person told me that the vice president has spent a lot of time, during her time in the job here, focused on issues around intelligence, tech, cybersecurity, artificial intelligence and space. All of these are points of contention with China. I will say, though, that Harris has offered few details of how she would differ fundamentally from President Biden in managing that relationship with China.
DETROW: Yeah, that's a theme across so many of these topics. That's NPR's Asma Khalid and Franco Ordoñez. Thanks to both of you.
ORDOÑEZ: Thank you, Scott.
KHALID: Good to speak with you.
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