SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is President Trump's nominee to head the Department of Health and Human Services. And today, he faced senators in a contentious confirmation hearing. Kennedy is a former Democrat turned independent, presidential candidate turned Trump loyalist. And with that in mind, Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan questioned Kennedy's integrity to do the job.
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MAGGIE HASSAN: When was it that you decided to sell out the values you've had your whole life in order to be given power by President Trump?
DETROW: Kennedy is the leader of the so-called Make America Healthy Again movement. NPR's Selena Simmons-Duffin and Susan Davis covered the hearing and join me now. Hey there.
SUSAN DAVIS, BYLINE: Hey, Scott.
SELENA SIMMONS-DUFFIN, BYLINE: Hi, Scott.
DETROW: Selena, I want to start with you, and I have to start with vaccines. Kennedy's advocacy against vaccine mandates and questioning the safety of vaccines is the main reason that opponents say he should not have this job. How did he defend himself?
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Well, today he said many times he is not anti-vaccine. He said all his kids are vaccinated. He supports the childhood vaccine schedule. What he said is that he wants good science, and he wants to make sure vaccines are safe, which, you know, sounds good. But there is this implication that there isn't good science now, which there is, and that vaccines aren't safe now, which they are. I did not hear him say at any point that he had been wrong with all the past statements that people were running by him. He just tried to walk this tightrope that for decades of urging people to skip vaccinations, despite all that, that wouldn't influence his approach to the job of overseeing federal vaccine policy and recommendations.
DETROW: Again, he has a very long track record here, so I'm curious what kind of pushback he got when he said that.
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Well, Democrats on the committee really hammered him on the way he has profited from his anti-vaccine work, from lawsuits against drugmakers, for example, books, speeches. His disclosures that became public this week shows he has made millions of dollars in this activity. And he's just been also very influential in the anti-vaccine movement. One memorable way this came up in the hearing was when independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont brought out posters showing the onesies being sold on the website of Children's Health Defense. That's the group Kennedy is closely affiliated with and used to lead.
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BERNIE SANDERS: One of them is titled unvaxxed, unafraid. Next one - and they're sold for 26 bucks apiece, by the way. Next one is no vax, no problem.
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Kennedy responded by distancing himself from the group. He said he didn't control the merchandise they sale. But we should note that they streamed the hearing on that website today.
DETROW: Sue, I'm going to turn to you and another big political topic. Most of his life, Kennedy has supported abortion rights. He now wants to serve in a Republican administration. How did that issue play at today's hearing?
DAVIS: Probably the sharpest exchange was with Senator Hassan. She noted this contradiction of his lifelong advocacy of body autonomy when it comes to vaccines but wouldn't commit to viewing abortion under that same autonomy. Kennedy also made it clear in a separate exchange with Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma that on this issue, he would not seek to counter the White House in any way.
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ROBERT F KENNEDY JR: I agree with President Trump that every abortion is a tragedy. I agree with him that we cannot be a moral nation if we have 1.2 million abortions a year. I agree with him that the states should control abortion.
DAVIS: A quick note, Scott, that Kennedy does have a condition that affects his voice. But in that statement, he went on to say explicitly he serves at the pleasure of the president, and he will implement his policies when it comes to abortion. And this is key because Kennedy has faced some skepticism on the right from conservative abortion activists that he could somehow be more of a maverick on this issue. He made it clear that is not going to be the case.
DETROW: Selena, more broadly, what has Kennedy said his top priorities would be if he is confirmed?
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Well, he talked a lot about how President Trump has given him a mandate to get the health of Americans back on track. He said in his generation - he is 71 years old - Americans used to be healthier. And he claimed that they could be healthy again with his out-of-the-box thinking and leadership. He said he would move the focus of scientific research away from infectious diseases like the flu and towards things like the root causes of chronic diseases like diabetes.
DETROW: A huge part of HHS and its budget is Medicare and Medicaid, also the Affordable Care Act. These are all programs that touch a lot of people's minds, that are always politically top of mind. How did Kennedy address those?
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: So on those topics, at times, Kennedy seemed to not know his way around those issues very well. At one point, he got the word Medicare and Medicaid confused, it seemed like. And he said that they are not popular programs, while they're very extremely popular across the political spectrum. And this is an important issue because Republicans in Congress are looking to possibly trim these programs in an effort to balance the budget.
DETROW: Sue, Republicans have the majority in the Senate. How did Republicans approach Kennedy and navigate his complicated history?
DAVIS: Look, to put a fine point on it, he's been accused for a long time of being a conspiracy theorist, particularly on how he frames this intersection of government and science. One Republican senator, Thom Tillis of North Carolina, seemed to try to give him some oxygen to defend himself.
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THOM TILLIS: I got a real quick question for you. Are you a conspiracy theorist?
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KENNEDY: That is a pejorative, Senator, that's applied to me mainly to keep me from asking difficult questions of powerful interest.
DAVIS: Scott, I don't think you can discount how much the COVID pandemic transformed the way the Republican Party views these government health agencies, as almost a hostile force, a view that Kennedy at times has shared, which I think explains why there is so much conservative support for him in this political moment.
DETROW: Yeah. At this point, there really does not seem to be much resistance at all to Trump's nominees. Is Kennedy on track to be confirmed?
DAVIS: You know, nothing is certain in the Trump administration, but it seems likely. Members of the Kennedy family are out there advocating against him, including his cousin, Caroline Kennedy, the daughter of former President Kennedy. She released a letter this week she sent to senators calling him a, quote, "predator" and saying he should be defeated. This carries a lot of weight with Democrats, but this is really about keeping the Republican Party unified. He can only lose three Republican senators and still get confirmed if all Democrats oppose him. And I would note here, Scott, that his former running mate, billionaire Nicole Shanahan, publicly this week said she will personally fund primary challenges to any of the key senators who oppose him or threaten to take down his nomination.
DETROW: That is NPR's Susan Davis along with Selena Simmons-Duffin. Thanks to both of you.
DAVIS: You're welcome.
SIMMONS-DUFFIN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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