MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
What a difference a year makes. Once again, world leaders and other top officials are gathering in Munich, Germany, for the annual security conference there. Once again, the wars in Ukraine and Gaza are expected to dominate the conversation. But this year, of course, Donald Trump is back in the White House in Washington, and he has sent his vice president, JD Vance, to lead the U.S. delegation to Munich. Well, let's go to Munich now and hear from another American there, who happens to be Delaware Democrat, Senator Chris Coons. Senator, welcome back to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
CHRIS COONS: Thanks, Mary Louise. It's great to be on with you.
KELLY: Give me a little taste of the scene, because this is not your first rodeo in Munich.
COONS: (Laughter) No.
KELLY: Does it feel different from past years, with the Trump team there?
COONS: Strikingly, but it feels a lot like 2017, when our European allies, folks from around the world who gather at this annual conference, were genuinely surprised at Trump's election and trying to figure out what his policies and positions would be. This time, they know a little bit more what to expect. But in just his first three weeks, President Trump has outperformed those expectations by threatening to make Greenland part of the United States, to retake the Panama Canal, to make Canada the 51st state. Many of the foreign leaders we're meeting with are asking for help discerning which of these are serious and which of these are negotiating tactics.
KELLY: Well, and I'm curious what you are telling them. And let me focus us on Ukraine. We have been hearing all this week from U.S. allies who are alarmed by Trump's plans for ending the war in Ukraine. What are they telling you?
COONS: Well, there's been some real sharp differences between what different senior members of the Trump team have said this week. Pete Hegseth, the new secretary of defense, said that Ukraine can't expect to regain its sovereign territory that Russia has invaded and occupied and that NATO membership is off the table, just to paraphrase. And then my understanding is Vice President Vance said sharply different things - that not only is everything on the table, but there's a chance we might even commit U.S. troops to help Ukraine defend its sovereignty.
KELLY: Senator, as you speak with U.S. allies, NATO allies there, are you hearing any optimism that maybe they are confused by what is coming out of Washington right now? - maybe they don't like President Trump's tactics, but that at least the U.S. is engaged on Ukraine, that there's some movement?
COONS: Look, I think there was widespread concern that President Trump might simply abandon Ukraine. And I've heard from a number of the foreign ministers and military leaders we've talked to that they're at least encouraged that there seems to be a willingness to engage with NATO on all of us increasing our investment in collective security and to engage with Ukraine in a way that sees value in the fight for freedom in Ukraine.
KELLY: Let me turn you to the Middle East. This is a conference, again, taking place in Germany, but it's all things national security and foreign policy on the table. What reaction are you hearing? What questions are you getting about President Trump's proposal for the United States to take over Gaza?
COONS: A lot of puzzlement, bewilderment or grave concern. Many in the region had expected Trump to come in with a bold proposal to lay out a plan for stabilizing and rebuilding Gaza. Instead, he shoved all that aside and made this, you know, Gaza Riviera proposal to relocate nearly 2 million Palestinians against their will and redevelop Gaza. It's not going over well. The leaders of Jordan and Egypt have publicly said that that's completely unacceptable, as has the crown prince of Saudi Arabia.
KELLY: I wonder, are you getting questions about the U.S. as a reliable ally? And I'm thinking in part, JD Vance...
COONS: Absolutely.
KELLY: ...I said, he's there leading the U.S. delegation. Is there confidence that he speaks for Trump on foreign policy matters or that anyone really speaks for Trump? Like, does anyone, including Trump, know what Trump will do next?
COONS: Well, that's part of the challenge and part of why having a bipartisan delegation of a dozen senators who've worked together for many years is somewhat reassuring and stabilizing. But there's one other thing that's happened that's being widely discussed here, and it's the shutdown of U.S. foreign aid. Lots of our partners in that work are European, and they are very puzzled, alarmed and, in some cases, genuinely upset at what seems to be not just a pause to reflect on our policy, but a shutdown of U.S. foreign aid with huge humanitarian consequences.
KELLY: Before I let you go, Senator, anyone there in Munich confused you yet with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz?
COONS: (Laughter) I literally just spoke to the foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock, and she made a joke that this may be the last year that when I walk in, the press says, oh, welcome, Chancellor. Guten abend, Chancellor. So we will see.
KELLY: For those who don't know what we're talking about, the German press, I gather, has had quite a bit of fun writing that you're basically their chancellor's doppelganger. And you two do look....
COONS: I am the doppelganger, yes.
KELLY: ...A lot alike, if I may say.
COONS: (Laughter) Yes.
KELLY: That is - we thank Senator Chris Coons - not the Chancellor of Germany - Senator Chris Coons, Democrat from Delaware, on the line from the Munich Security Conference. Thanks very much.
COONS: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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