Jason Isbell confronts the pain of divorce, and the possibility of new love

No matter how many love songs exist in the world, Jason Isbell says there's always room for one more.

"What I try to do is closely document my own experience, put my own ... fingerprint on these songs," the Grammy-winning singer-songwriter and guitarist says. "Everybody's looking at the moon, but we're all looking at it from a different spot."

Isbell got his professional start with the Drive-By Truckers, but parted ways with the band in 2007. He's since led the band the 400 Unit, but his latest album, Foxes in the Snow, is a solo effort. It's been described as a divorce album, with songs about his 2024 break-up with fellow musician Amanda Shires.

"On first listen, you could dismiss this record and say, these lyrics are very simple compared to things that I've written in the past," Isbell says. "What I was attempting to do is document a very specific time where I was going through a lot of changes really, really quickly. And I was in a lot of pain. I felt a lot of shame."

Though some of the lyrics sound angry, he's not outwardly critical of Shires.

"The record's about growing and changing as me, myself, and not about accusing Amanda or any other individual person of any wrongdoing," he says. "I don't think there's really any criticism at all. ... I think perspective, empathy for the other person starts to sink in as time passes."

Interview highlights

On playing old love songs now, since the marriage ended

I can. I can also not [on] some nights, and that feels really good, too. Just because I feel like I can arrange a show that is satisfying for me and the audience without putting that one in there. ... The old songs, they mean different things to me now, because I have hindsight, and the emotions that I'm feeling now when I'm playing those songs, they're not the same as they were when I wrote them. They're certainly not that sort of obsession. There's more nostalgia for the person that I was when I felt that way. There's also a document of love that I had for someone, and I feel like that was reciprocated at the time. I mean that's just art. Our lives change. And the hard part for me is not writing about it — the hard part is making the decisions that lead me to peace. That's very, very difficult. But I'm not just going to whine for the rest of my life. ... Writing songs and watching how the meanings of those songs evolve over time, that's just art.

On experiencing lingering thoughts about death during his break-up with Shires

I call it my "hillbilly brain," but it goes to the worst possible scenario in a lot of situations. I spend a lot of time thinking about death, not in a sad or fearful way, but in a way that, I think, well, I have already done so many things and got to see so many things and that might not have necessarily been in the plans for me at the beginning. So I'm very, very grateful for the time that I have had and I think the song deals with that, among other things.

There was definitely a time early on after Amanda and I had split up, when I was driving in the car and the radio wasn't on and I was alone and I just heard myself say out loud … "Is this going to kill me?" And I didn't even know that I was thinking that question, but I heard it bounce off the windshield. … Everything is brief — so, so brief, but it's so beautiful.

On his song "Bury Me"

I had written a song about molting, a song about changing from one stage in your life to the next. And sometimes that's metaphorically characterized as death. But also, I remember that Robbie Robertson album where there was a song where he talked about, "It Is a Good Day to Die," and that was chanted over and over and over and over. And I remember thinking, what a grateful way to feel. And I think "Bury Me" deals with rebirth and change but it also deals with gratitude, because it's like well, if I died today, then I've had a good time.

On being asked to leave his band Drive-By Truckers, in 2007, for alcohol-induced bad behavior

I went wild because I was postponing dealing with the trauma of my childhood, and at the time it was much easier to blame it on being in a rock and roll band, because it did feel like a gang, you know? It felt good. I felt like, alright, I'm in with these guys, they're older, they smoke cigarettes, they drink whiskey. … It motivated me not only to have more confidence but also it made me feel like I could push my own boundaries and test my own boundaries a little bit. But ... the truth of it was that I was just postponing growing into an adult, untangling those knots and making a deal with a community where I would treat them fairly and hope for the same in return.

On reckoning with the trauma of his upbringing

Growing up around so many deeply conservative, deeply religious people, I think that's trauma, in and of itself. I think a lot of people in America are dealing with that now because I think being deeply conservative and traditional in your values is child abuse. And I had to deal with it because I felt so much guilt and so much shame growing. I had to come to terms with myself, be able to sit with myself and think, you don't deserve to go to hell just for existing, no matter what anybody has told you. And your body, your feelings, those belong to you. Those are not to be judged by anyone else walking this Earth. Your behavior, your actions, fair game. But your feelings are your own, and it was traumatic for me to hear otherwise.

On being sober for 13 years and writing "It Gets Easier," a song about sobriety

You think it's hard to write a love song, try writing a damn recovery song and not sounding like a bumper sticker. That's very hard. But you gotta be personal, and you gotta be very small. … I worked hard on that song to make sure … that it scans right, that it sounds conversational, that it doesn't sound forced, like you're jamming syllables in where they don't belong. And if you can do that, you'll cut out a whole lot of your potential for cliché. ... You can use lyrics and phrases and subject matter that have been covered so many times in the past, but if you get it to sing just right, then people forget they're listening to a song at all.

Therese Madden and Susan Nyakundi produced and edited this interview for broadcast. Bridget Bentz, Molly Seavy-Nesper and Hazel Cills adapted it for the web.

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