SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
And as Maria mentioned, a lot of confusion this week. There were mixed messages from the White House. Tuesday, President Trump said he was not open to a pause on tariffs. But the very next day, there it was, a 90-day pause, but on his so-called reciprocal tariffs.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, I thought that people were jumping a little bit out of line. They were getting yippy, you know? They were getting a little bit yippy, a little bit afraid.
SIMON: NPR senior contributor Ron Elving joins us. Ron, thanks so much for being with us.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: Many in the administration said it was President Trump's plan all along to pause those tariffs. But given how it unfolded and the president's own comments, has he been playing poker or chicken?
ELVING: You know, those two games have a lot in common. They both include a crucial element of bluffing and an appetite for high risk, even the highest risk. And in either game, success or even survival depends a lot on reading the intentions of the other players. Right now at Trump and trade, the game continues. And Trump seems to think that - to use a poker term here - he's playing with other people's money more than his own.
SIMON: And how unshakable does the president's faith in tariffs seem to be, Ron?
ELVING: We did see him pull back this week - offer to negotiate, at least temporarily. But we shouldn't think his faith has been shaken, at least, not yet. He's a tariff guy, and it's a conviction that runs deep, and it may not be totally unshakable. He is willing to at least make some kind of a deal, and, you know, this runs very deep. In September of 1987, he paid for an open letter in several major newspapers, and he also appeared on CNN's "Larry King Live," complaining then about Japan, Saudi Arabia and others, saying that they should pick up the cost of defending themselves.
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TRUMP: I think a lot of people are tired of watching other countries ripping off the United States. This is a great country. They laugh at us. Behind our backs, they laugh at us because of our own stupidity and the leaders. I mean, what we have...
ELVING: Yeah. That was the young Donald Trump...
SIMON: Yeah.
ELVING: ...Back in 1987. More recently, of course, he's been focused on China, but also on Europe, and especially on NATO and the European Union, which he says only exist to stick it to the U.S.
SIMON: Ron, how's all this volatility in the market affecting the progress of what Trump calls his one big, beautiful bill - a sweeping piece of legislation that would cover taxes, spending, border, tariffs. What he talked about on the campaign trail.
ELVING: It may create problems for that big package down the road, but for now, the process is still working for Trump and showing him green lights. In a big showdown vote this week, the House said, with no votes to spare, let's go along with the Senate version of the budget resolution and thereby enable us to move to what's called a reconciliation bill later this spring. And as you say, that could incorporate a wide array of Trump agenda items beyond the strictly budgetary. And the magic of the reconciliation process is it can't be filbustered. The Republican majority can do what it wants in the Senate without making any deals or accommodating the Democrats at all. So for now, Trump's grip on the party is holding, but the tariff issue did produce some pushback in the Senate among Republicans this week, and that could mean some hurdles if some of that fallout from these tariffs causes the economy to falter in the months ahead.
SIMON: And, Ron, we saw some important developments in the judicial branch this week, too, didn't we?
ELVING: Yes. Thus far in Trump's new term, the courts have been the only really meaningful restraint from within the government. They've been stepping in where Congress has been unable or unwilling to do so. And at several levels, the courts have tried to act as a restraint on Trump. But being the courts, after all, they have been rather restrained in how they go about it. This week, the Supreme Court, in a rarer unanimous ruling, said a Maryland man legally in the United States was then illegally deported and had to be brought back and given due process. Trump, on Friday, said he respected the Supreme Court and that he would respect the ruling and try to comply. But there was also a ruling in an immigration court refusing to block the deportation of a student from Columbia University, Mahmoud Khalil, who was singled out by the State Department for his pro-Palestinian activism. That case is still pending in another federal court. But as we've said, the courts are not an immediate response to anything that Trump does.
SIMON: NPR's Ron Elving. Thanks so much.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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