STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
And we have some analysis now from James Capretta, who's with the American Enterprise Institute, a Washington think tank that advocates for free enterprise. What's pertinent here is that he was an associate director of the Office of Management and Budget under Republican President George W. Bush. Mr. Capretta, welcome to the program.
JAMES CAPRETTA: Thank you. Glad to be with you.
INSKEEP: What did you think about when you saw this memo that essentially said, pause $3 trillion in federal spending?
CAPRETTA: Well, I think it was one of those directives that probably got issued from on high without people thinking through what the legal authorities are. So new administrations come in, and they often do try to pause new actions to try to make sure their policies and vision for how to run things can be implemented gradually going forward. So I'm quite sure we did - you know, the administration I worked in probably did something similar, but it was prospective. Don't sign any new contracts. Don't put out any new big programs yet. Let the new people come in and review new actions going forward. But they didn't do that. They put out a memo that said, stop everything - even the stuff that was signed and, you know, committed to months and years ago. And there's no real legal authority to do such a thing 'cause...
INSKEEP: I just want to be clear on this. I'm just thinking about the United States government. We do this collectively over time. There's a passing of a baton from one administration to the other. But each administration has to honor the commitments of the one before, to the extent that the law requires. Is that what you're saying?
CAPRETTA: Exactly, yeah.
INSKEEP: OK.
CAPRETTA: You know, so...
INSKEEP: And is it...
CAPRETTA: ...There's a lot of statutes governing how money is spent already in place, and you can't ignore them all.
INSKEEP: And is this also an issue in that Congress has approved the spending, and that limits the president's authority to ignore what Congress has passed?
CAPRETTA: That's correct. So the - you know, most of this money is in appropriated accounts, and there was an appropriations bill. A continuing resolution is currently in place, but there was a previous appropriation bill that had stipulations around what the money would be used for, and all that continues until amended.
INSKEEP: But it sounds like, from what you said, the administration could have done less - could have issued a more focused memorandum. And people might not have liked it, but nobody would have been able to go to a judge and block it.
CAPRETTA: No, of course. Yeah, that is very typical. I'm sure - quite sure the Biden administration did something similar. You know, stop new, you know, spending going out the door for new commitments. Don't sign new contracts. Let's review what our options are going forward. That kind of memo is very typical and, you know, not to be unexpected. I mean, it's sort of normalized when you have a change in administrations.
INSKEEP: Now, the campaign talked about impoundment, the power of impoundment - trying to exercise or claim a power for the president to refuse to spend money that Congress appropriates, essentially to take over the authority for how much to spend from Congress. This is not a new argument. What is the law as you understand it right now?
CAPRETTA: Well, there was a law passed in 1974 that governed how this is supposed to be run. The president can choose to try to impound funds but must send a message to the Congress saying that's his intention. And then Congress can either act on that and agree and try to rescind the money, or, if Congress does nothing, then the money must be spent. So this was signed during the Nixon era, when President Nixon tried to push the boundaries of impoundment. Congress pushed back. The legal authorities - the legal statute has been in place since then, half a century. And it - you know, it basically leaves in place the basic understanding that preceded it, which is that Congress gets to decide...
INSKEEP: Yeah.
CAPRETTA: ...How to - you know, what should be spent from the Treasury.
INSKEEP: Power of the purse.
CAPRETTA: And the president executes it - doesn't get to decide the total amount.
INSKEEP: Power of the purse with some limitations, as you mentioned, and we'll find out if that goes to a higher court for some kind of ruling. I want to ask also about this mandate for federal workers, which is being structured as almost a buyout. It's not called a buyout, but if you want to quit now, they'll keep paying you through September 30. Does that seem within the president's authority?
CAPRETTA: I doubt it, you know, that - there are, of course, in place and have been periodic buyout provisions in law, so that the Congress has approved buyouts through special provisions to try to shrink various agencies over time. There was a big one in the 1990s. But I - my guess is that they've overreached here also, in the sense that they have a blanket buyout and - with, you know, no structure around it. And for everybody in every office and so on, I think that probably goes well beyond what they have the authority to do, as people will discover today as they start to review this.
INSKEEP: We just have about 30 seconds left. But Asma Khalid said that federal workers are feeling like they've been made into the enemy in a way they hadn't been by prior administrations, even ones that wanted to cut the government. Do you think that's true?
CAPRETTA: Yes. I think the president signaled that he was going to, you know, really try to make all the civil service sort of loyal to his vision for the government, and that's what's taking place right now.
INSKEEP: James Capretta is a former associate director at the Office of Management and Budget under the second Bush administration. He's now at the American Enterprise Institute. Thanks so much.
CAPRETTA: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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