AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth had another unauthorized chat on Signal last month. The New York Times first reported this, and NPR has confirmed that Hegseth used his personal cellphone to provide his wife, brother and lawyer with classified information about imminent airstrikes on Houthi targets in Yemen. This was on the same day that Hegseth provided similar information in a Signal chat with senior U.S. officials, as well as a journalist who was mistakenly added to that group. All of this has raised questions about Hegseth's viability in the position. NPR's Tom Bowman joins us now. Hi, Tom.
TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK, so much has piled up here. As we just mentioned, last month, Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor of The Atlantic, was added to a Signal group where Hegseth provided minute-by-minute updates on plans for airstrikes that were about to happen. And Tom, what we are talking about now - just so I understand - is a totally separate, different Signal communication, yeah?
BOWMAN: Yeah, that's right. I'm told he used his Pentagon cellphone for the first call, and at the same time used his personal cell to send the same information to another group chat that included his wife, brother and his lawyer. The information was highly classified. It included flight times for U.S. warplanes, bombing targets, weapons to be used and minute-by-minute details he was getting through secure communications from senior military officers with Central Command. And those on this call did not have clearances to get this information, which is closely guarded. Usually, Ailsa, such details of pending airstrikes are not even shared with Capitol Hill until the attacks are finished.
CHANG: Right, because if an adversary were able to intercept that Signal communication, they could alert the Houthis about the attacks, right?
BOWMAN: No, that's right. An adversary could possibly intercept such information on this nonsecure Signal chat and pass it on to the Houthis. You know, already, the Houthis have shot down two U.S. Predator drones, so you can imagine the threat here. I know The New York Times interviewed F-18 pilots after reports of that first Signal chat last month, and they were pretty upset about this lack of security awareness. One pilot told The Times, you don't want to telegraph that we're about to show up on someone's doorstep. That puts the crew at risk. Now, after the first Signal chat, I had retired military officers reach out to me, and they were just stunned that this could happen and said if others did this, they would at least lose their clearances and maybe be criminally charged.
CHANG: Well, what's been the response from Hegseth and from the White House?
BOWMAN: Well, Hegseth was at the White House Easter Egg Roll today and did not address the second Signal chat directly but instead said anonymous sources - disgruntled former employees - were behind this. He said they, quote, "slash and burn people and ruin their reputations." President Trump, at the same event, praised Hegseth and called the story false. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Pete's doing a great job. Everybody's happy with him. We have the highest recruitment numbers I think we've had in 28 years. No, he's doing a great job. It's just fake news. They just bring up stories.
BOWMAN: Well, we know the first Signal chat was not fake news because a journalist was mistakenly placed on that chat by a White House official and put out some details of what they were talking about. Now, the Pentagon inspector general is looking into that one and will likely add this second chat to the investigation. And I am told by a source that the White House is considering replacing Hegseth, but White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt denied our report.
CHANG: When Hegseth is blaming, quote, "disgruntled employees" there, who is he talking about, exactly?
BOWMAN: Well, several employees were fired, and they said they don't know why. And finally, another employee, John Ullyot, who left, wrote in Politico that this month has been total chaos, a major distraction for the president, and it's hard to see Hegseth remaining much longer. But, of course, that's up to President Trump.
CHANG: That is NPR's Tom Bowman. Thank you, Tom.
BOWMAN: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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