LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Now we turn to one of the groups suing the Trump administration over these deportations. Skye Perryman is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward. It describes itself as a national legal organization promoting democracy through litigation. Good morning, Skye, and thanks for joining me in the studio.
SKYE PERRYMAN: Good morning.
FADEL: So your organization filed the suit alongside the ACLU. And I'd like to just play you President Trump's explanation as to why he believes he can invoke this 18th century wartime law when there's no war.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This is a time of war because Biden allowed millions of people, many of them criminals, many of them at the highest level - they emptied jails out. Other nations emptied their jails into the United States. That's an invasion.
FADEL: So what's your reaction to that?
PERRYMAN: Well, this is really such a fundamental moment to have the president of the United States invoking this very - this wartime authority in a time where we are not at war. We are not being invaded. And the president has a number of tools at his disposal for immigration enforcement. But this is a really improper - and a great acceleration of his attempt to accelerate power that he doesn't have under our Constitution. And it should really concern every single American because this is an expansion of presidential power that could essentially say - I mean, these people have now been, you know, removed or the president is seeking to remove them without any type of due process, without - and that is - that's against our Constitution, but it's also a threat to everyone.
FADEL: Now, you're saying he doesn't need to invoke this act in order to remove what they're saying are dangerous individuals.
PERRYMAN: Well, what I - first of all, I think it's important because a lot of the administration's sort of made-for-TV moments and talking points are not really - they're not really describing what's happening here. The individuals, as we understand, that they are seeking right now to remove are already in custody in some way. But they're seeking to circumvent the process that we have in our country in order to just expand power and do something with no process at all. So that's highly concerning. We've not ever been in this situation in the country. But, yes, obviously, the United States has comprehensive immigration laws with a lot of enforcement powers, but this one is a misuse.
FADEL: Now, the administration carried out these deportations despite a judge's ruling blocking them. And they said the planes carrying the migrants were already in the air at the time of the ruling, so they didn't have to comply. What do you make of that explanation?
PERRYMAN: Well, I think, you know, this is the government's positions here. And I heard you all summarize what the El Salvadoran president said. And then, of course, you have the secretary of state retweeting that yesterday, making light of a court's order. This is not normal, and it's not OK. We filed a paper with the court late last night - with the ACLU, of course - raising a number of responses to how the government has been conducting itself in the court hearing, and we are going to work very hard with the court to ensure that the government complies with the order. But we have serious concerns about this compliance because it does look like that they're just operating in the throes, that the rule of law does not apply to them. And it's highly concerning and should be concerning for all Americans.
FADEL: Now, we've heard Trump advisers, administration officials blaming, in general, activist judges for blocking the president's lawful authority, as they say. And this is in this case and other cases, even though these decisions have been made by Republican- and Democratic-appointed judges. In this case, did the judge overstep, as the White House officials say they did?
PERRYMAN: Absolutely not. I mean, you see the judge doing exactly what - you know, exactly what we want federal judges to do. In an emergent situation, he looked at the facts. He held a hearing. He heard the government, and he ultimately issued a temporary order so - while the case is pending. This is very - this is what it means to live under the rule of law in the country. It should be concerning to everyone that our president doesn't believe that the laws apply to him.
And I'll just note that, you know, the majority of Americans - the vast majority of Americans and the vast majority of actually Republicans, when they're asked, including last month, agree that presidents should follow court orders. And so we believe this is a real crisis point, and we're looking forward to raising these issues before the court.
FADEL: Skye Perryman of Democracy Forward, thank you for being here.
PERRYMAN: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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