SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Will Seefried's feature film directorial debut, "Lilies Not For Me, " takes us back to just a century ago, when doctors, hospitals and clinics thought being gay was an illness to be treated - sometimes with painful surgical procedures. The film introduces us to Owen, played by Fionn O'Shea, who's an aspiring writer admitted to a medical facility where he must share daily teatimes with Nurse Dorothy, played by Erin Kellyman.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "LILIES NOT FOR ME")
ERIN KELLYMAN: (As Dorothy) I do want you to get better, Owen, to be normal.
FIONN O'SHEA: (As Owen James) How is being normal better?
KELLYMAN: (As Dorothy Ellis) I want you to be happy, is what I mean.
SIMON: Will Seefried also wrote the screenplay for "Lilies Not For Me," and he joins us from our studios in Culver City, California. Thank you so much for being with us.
WILL SEEFRIED: Hey, there. Thank you for having me.
SIMON: The film is set in the 1920s, but some of the treatments featured persisted into the 1970s, didn't they?
SEEFRIED: Yes, that's right. The research process for this began sort of interrogating things about myself. And one of those things was how some of the messages of this history of conversion therapy had found its way into my psyche and inner life, even as someone who grew up with a really supportive family, came out as gay at a really young age and was blessed to have a really supportive environment. But still, those messages sort of persisted.
So started a bit of a personal research project into some of the history of these practices, hoping to connect my own journey with some broader queer lineage and to have a sense of context for what I was going through. And that's when I learned about a couple pieces of history that really got caught in my mind. The first was a procedure that - I won't say the specifics of what it entails - but it was an experimental procedure that believed that homosexuality was a physical illness that needed to be treated physically. It just got lodged in my psyche as this physical expression of a message that I and so many other queer people had received. So I wanted to explore that.
And complementary, but very different piece of history was about these faux dates that institutionalized gay men would be sent on with these young nurses to teach them about heterosexual courtship. But it's all these, you know, funny gay guys and all these young nurses who formed these really amazing friendships. And a lot of these nurses would become radicalized in these institutions, you know, working against them from within to help these guys get discharged and back to their lives and to their lovers. So I thought those two stories were complementary parts of history that I hadn't heard about and wanted to weave them together.
SIMON: Yeah. I feel the need to be blunt. We're talking about what amount to medical experiments on people, aren't we?
SEEFRIED: Yes, we are. That persisted for a very, very long time before they were discredited.
SIMON: Owen - your central character - is trying to write a novel set within the generation that lived through World War I. What's he grappling with in the larger world and himself?
SEEFRIED: I think Owen is grappling with a sense of where he fits into the society that he finds himself living in. He's coming off of a first novel that was about his personal story, and that moving into a second book, he's looking for what he has to say about his place in the world. And I think that his sexuality and identity in 1920's England was an important part of that.
SIMON: And he's been in a relationship with Philip, who's a medical student. Do they have a different understanding of who they are and what the relationship is?
SEEFRIED: Yeah. The history between Owen and Philip, played by Fionn O'Shea, as you said, is Owen - and Robert Aramayo plays Philip in the film - were best friends from adolescence who had this amazing connection and the perfect sort of context to have a love story unfold between them. But that is all derailed when Philip, as a medical student, learns about this experimental procedure and comes to Owen saying, we can't be together, but if you can perform this on me, I'll perform it on you, and we can save each other. So a lot of the film is about how the context for a beautiful love story is upended by violence, both externalized and that has been internalized by the characters.
SIMON: Yeah. But Owen seems OK with himself, doesn't he?
SEEFRIED: Yeah. That was something that I really wanted to explore, is so much of the message of conversion therapy is that there's something inside of you that's wrong and needs to change. And I thought it would be interesting to explore that through a character who actually is quite content with himself and that his sense of identity is not as vulnerable, I guess, to some of these outside pressures as Philip, who takes this on in such a dark and heavy way.
SIMON: Nurse Dorothy is one of these - if you please - teatime nurses who works at the facility, but there's a real human beating heart there, isn't there?
SEEFRIED: Yes, absolutely, especially through the performance of the actress, Erin Kellyman - who plays Dorothy - who just brought so much personal dimension and delicacy to the role.
SIMON: At one point, Owen tells Nurse Dorothy, if you want to hear the story, you have to hear all of it.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "LILIES NOT FOR ME")
KELLYMAN: (As Dorothy Ellis) I can't do this, Owen.
O'SHEA: (As Owen James) You said you wanted to hear the story.
KELLYMAN: (As Dorothy Ellis) I do, Owen.
O'SHEA: (As Owen James) Then you hear all of the story. You hear all of it. You don't just get to hear the bits that sound harmless and pretty.
KELLYMAN: (As Dorothy Ellis) Owen.
SIMON: You wrote the screenplay as well as directed. Are you - you're talking to those of us in our seats?
SEEFRIED: Yes (laughter). It's so funny you mentioned that line, 'cause that is - as much of a mouthpiece as I have in the film, and towards the decision of exploring this really challenging history in my first film, I think, often, queer stories are sort of shoved into a binary of it's all darkness and trauma. Or it's a vision of representation that is focused on lightness and positivity and only skims the surface. And a key sort of quote for us through the process - a guiding quote - was from the architect Le Corbusier, which was light and shadow reveal form. And I think that is so true of storytelling, especially when you're seeking to represent a community and a community's history, is that if you only explore the darkness or you only explore the light, you can't really reveal the true form of the experiences of the people within that community.
SIMON: Every now and then, and more than every now and then in this film, you're reminded of the fact that all of them - Owen Philip and Dorothy - they've lived through a traumatic time irrespective of anything personal they're dealing with, haven't they?
SEEFRIED: Yes. Which is part of the reason why I feel like the film, even though, as you say, it's set a hundred years ago, is quite relevant today. I think that we're living through a time that is similarly traumatic for all of us. And so that how we deal with our personal journeys, personal traumas and relationships in that broader context is an important part of the film and, I think, an important part of what we're all going through in the world today.
SIMON: Will Seefried has directed his first feature film, "Lilies Not For Me," now streaming. Thanks so much for being with us.
SEEFRIED: Thank you so much for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
